Proven ancestors[]
Careful genealogists seem to agree that he had fewer than 20 proven ancestors. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:32, January 15, 2017 (UTC)
Even Geni,com, which contains a lot of junk, has a serious discussion on this issue: https://www.geni.com/projects/14-proven-ancestors-of-Charlemagne/30716
The aforementioned "8" were (quoted with our link added):
- 2. Pepin (king of the Franks) 751-768 - Pepin the Short (714-768)
- 3. Berthe - Bertrada of Laon (720-783)
- 4. Charles Martel (duke of the Franks) 717-741 - Charles Martel (686-741)
- 6. Caribert (count of Laon) - Caribert of Laon (bef705-bef762)
- 8. Pepin (master of the Palace) 688/90-714 - Pepin of Herstal (635-714)
- 9. Alpaïde - Alpaida (c640-714)
- 13. Berthe (founder of the Abbey of Prüm) - Bertrada of Prüm (670-)
- 16. Ansegisel (member of the Household) 648 - Ansegisel (c606-bef679)
Then the following:
- Almost certain:
- 5. Rotrude - Rotrude of Treves (690-724)
- 17. Begga (founder of the Abbey of Andenne) - Saint Begga (615-693)
- 32. St. Arnulf (bishop of Metz) 612-629
- 34. Pepin (master of the Palace of Austrasia)
- 35. Itte (founder of the Abbey of Nivelles)
The Geni list has all of the above 13 plus #33.
So we would do well to examine more closely our documentation for the parentage and children of:
- 7 - Bertrada of Cologne (690-aft721)
- 10 - Leutwinus, Bishop of Trier (660-722)
- 11 - Chrodobertusdaughter (aft670-) (!?)
- 12 - Martin de Laon (c660-bef696) - shown as "Unknown Husband" on Geni's page
- 14 - Dagobert III (bef680-716)
- 18 - Dodo (c615-?)
and any number beyond that, if we are satisfied that their children are OK.
Collaterals[]
On a related note, on 13 January 2017 Richard Smith stated (in a discussion on DNA under the broader heading "The 8 proven ancestors of Charlemagne"):
- "There are no documented descents from an ancestor of Charlemagne that does not pass through Charlemagne himself, ...".
That means that every proven line of descent from proven ancestors, except the lines through Charlemagne, dies out before reaching this century.
So we should examine the most likely-looking of Charlemagne's stated uncles, aunts, cousins, etc, to see whether we can produce one line that survives. (We have no articles for children of his siblings.)
-- Robin Patterson (Talk) 02:48, January 15, 2017 (UTC)