Talk: Regions of New South Wales

Finalising the non-Sydney regions

(Discussion continued from Forum:Divisions of Australian states.)

I've done a visual comparison of the ODP regions and the GenWeb regions. Apart from name differences, there seem to be only three or four differences. We can stick with our ODP-based regions but maybe change some names. We also agreed to use the comma style.

So here they are with commas and our "original" (ODP) names and notes about other names etc:

• Central Coast, New South Wales (part of GenWeb's "Hunter" and maybe some of its "Sydney Surrounds")
• Central West, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• Far West, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• Greater Sydney, New South Wales (no disagreement except maybe minor - need to check council areas) - population about 5 million needs subdividing itself; GenWeb has only three divisions
• Hunter Valley, New South Wales (GenWeb calls it just "Hunter" and includes much or all of Central Coast)
• Illawarra, New South Wales (no disagreement? - GenWeb now calls it "South Coast" and may have moved the boundaries)
• Murray, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• North Coast, New South Wales (no disagreement but GenWeb calls it "Mid North Coast", which may be preferable because it does not go to north end)
• North West, New South Wales (no disagreement but GenWeb calls it "North" and says that some researchers call it "New England"; as Thurstan is one of them, I suggest we use that so as to avoid ambiguity)
• Northern Rivers, New South Wales (no disagreement but GenWeb calls it "Richmond-Tweed")
• Orana, New South Wales (no disagreement but GenWeb calls it "North Western", so some possible confusion with "New England")
• Riverina, New South Wales (GenWeb calls it "Murrumbidgee" and gives its south-eastern council area to "South East"; and "Riverina" may apply to "Murray" too, so I suggest we use "Murrumbidgee")
• South Coast, New South Wales (part of GenWeb's "South East"? - they changed something there; scrutiny needed)
• Southern Tablelands, New South Wales (major part of GenWeb's "South East"; GenWeb response suggests that ODP name not ideal; we should compare Wikipedia?)

Robin Patterson 15:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Looking at wikipedia:New England (Australia), I see that "New England" is considered ambiguous, so I had better withdraw my support for it. Thurstan 05:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I like "Mid North Coast". I like "Northern Rivers", but I would expect it to include the Clarence River: I notice that wikipedia:Northern Rivers, New South Wales redirects to wikipedia:North Coast (New South Wales), the latter seems to include both "Mid North Coast" and "Richmond-Tweed". If we are going to divide this region, perhaps we have to go with the GenWeb names. Thurstan 05:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia seems to split the ODP "Southern Tablelands" into Snowy Mountains, Southern Tablelands, South West Slopes and Monaro (at least). I'm not sure what to do with this: I like the coast/inland split, but I think it would be best to follow GenWeb since we haven't come up with a good name for the inland part. Thurstan 05:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Three "authorities" agree almost exactly outside Sydney

The Australian Bureau of Statistics uses exactly the same region names (outside Sydney) as the Dept of Local Government (apart from removing spaces around hyphens). See http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/66f306f503e529a5ca25697e0017661f/4C1A219CFAA9626ACA25697E00184C60?opendocument - if you can!

Thurstan seems to be content with the GenWeb regions (which are almost the same as LG and stats). The LG site has very good maps and lists, going right down to the suburb level. Name a suburb or even an address, find its local government area in a couple of clicks. The home page has council finders: "To find the local council for a given address, enter the suburb/town in the box provided below. ... What localities are in a local government area? ... view a list of all localities in a council and maps of council boundaries". Example http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_regions.asp?mi=0&ml=8&regiontype=2&slacode=6470&region=SE has an outline map of the council area and surroundings then lists the suburbs:

"

Listed are the suburbs within Queanbeyan City Council. View Queanbeyan City Council contact details
"Suburb/Town 	PostCode
BURBONG 	2620 	 
CARWOOLA	2620 	***
CRESTWOOD 	2620 	 
DE SALIS 	2620 	 
DODSWORTH"

and so on

Once you've worked up from the locality your relatives were in and found the current council, you can come back to our lists to find the region and all necessary categories and subpages to attach your relatives to. We have most of it in place already since I added the regions to the list of LGAs a few hours ago.

Ideal help for a young wiki?

Let's go for the Dept of Local Government regional division (with Australian Bureau of Statistics spelling) for everything outside Greater Sydney.

Robin Patterson 13:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Sydney

We can have a separate project for Sydney if anyone wants it. See discussion at Template talk:Sydney regions.

Robin Patterson 05:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Further responses

My 2c - I don't care one way or the other about the use of regions. When I was working on ODP it became a contentious issue and so I just left it up to everyone else. I dealt with entities that had official borders such as suburbs and local government areas. I like official borders, no one argues about them! So - go whichever way you like, have fun, thanks for inviting me, and I don't mind at all what you do!! Jayoval 21:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Really finalising outside Sydney

First the above ODP-based list except Sydney, rearranged in roughly west-east order, with notes about proposed mergers and other variations, and my name preference in bold:

• Far West, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• Murray, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• Riverina, New South Wales - GenWeb calls it "Murrumbidgee" and gives its south-eastern council area to "South East"; and "Riverina" may apply to "Murray" too, so I suggest we use "Murrumbidgee": Murrumbidgee, New South Wales
• Orana, New South Wales - no boundary disagreement but GenWeb calls it "North Western", so some possible confusion with "New England"; Wikipedia has Orana.
• Central West, New South Wales (no disagreement)
• Southern Tablelands, New South Wales - major part of GenWeb's "South East"; GenWeb response suggests that ODP name not ideal; we could compare Wikipedia? - see below
• South Coast, New South Wales (part of GenWeb's "South East"? - they changed something there; scrutiny needed? - problems having this and the inland "whatevers" separate, so merge as South East, New South Wales
• Illawarra, New South Wales - no disagreement? but GenWeb now calls it "South Coast" (conflicting with ODP) and may have moved the boundaries based on research needs)
• Central Coast, New South Wales - part of GenWeb's "Hunter" and maybe some of its "Sydney Surrounds": split between the two as GenWeb and Local Gov do
• Hunter Valley, New South Wales (GenWeb calls it just "Hunter" and includes much or all of Central Coast): Hunter, New South Wales (I've checked in WP that there seems to be no locality named "Hunter", so no ambiguity)
• North West, New South Wales - no boundary disagreement but GenWeb calls it "North" and says that some researchers call it "New England"; as Thurstan is one of them, I suggest we use that so as to avoid ambiguity; the Wikpedia definitions do indicate some variations in extent, but the text suggests that's minor: New England, New South Wales
• North Coast, New South Wales - no boundary disagreement but GenWeb calls it "Mid North Coast", which may be preferable because it does not go to north end: Mid North Coast, New South Wales
• Northern Rivers, New South Wales - no boundary disagreement but name could confuse for two reasons; GenWeb calls it "Richmond-Tweed": Richmond-Tweed, New South Wales.
• Lord Howe Island - part of NSW but ignored by ODP.

Names are pretty long; I'd be happy to cut the state name to NSW just for these regions.

Robin Patterson 06:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy with all that (assuming we can work out which localities are where). I don't mind the long names. Thurstan 02:29, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Localities will be no problem with the local govt searching system mentioned above (which is what really sold me on the idea of switching from ODP to those regions). Robin Patterson 04:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Now all redirected (with merging of articles covering South East), I think, but the categories have a little problem with Template:Ausregcat. Robin Patterson 05:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)