1. Archive One (September 2006 - November 2007)
  2. Archive Two (November 2007 - September 2008)
  3. Archive Three (September 2008 - August 2014)
  4. Archive Four (August 2014 - present)

Biblical figures[]

  • This is a tough one because there will probably never be any agreement on the dates until you get into the latter parts of the old testament. I think your approach looks good (son of ...), because there is little dispute over that.
  • Related subject- I'm not sure what you think about biography tab articles, but there are great ones on even obscure biblical figures- plus when the Bot pulls them over we also pick up the images for free. I can pull over any article so long at there is a link to a WP article in the biography section. What do you think? ~ Phlox 23:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm not really a fan of tabs. That's why I have omitted them from my most of ancestors' pages, and there hasn't been any disputes. The edit info link is easily accessible from the bottom of the showinfo templates, which I prefer over a giant tab. But I wouldn't mind if like for example, Charlemagne's biography be on a tab as it is huge. People like Abraham Elder I believe should have their biography on the actual article. Although it is a lot of info, most people have never heard of him. William the Conqueor's shortened biography on his main article page is another thing, since everyoen is getting soem info and if they want to dig deeper, they can go the the biography article. -AMK152(TalkContributions 14:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Children of multiple spouses[]

  • This works now. See Henry I, King of England (1068-1135) for an extreme case. I think I should allow the width to be set so that the tables line up in a more pretty way.
  • Spouse after spouse2 bug was not addressed. Maybe tomorrow.
~ Phlox 09:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Don't get used to the ugly syntax for showinfo children. I'm going to do some tidying and cosmetic stuff so all the user has to do is specify a single number for the family. Feel free to propose syntax changes: A long form (from a wife article) might be:
{{showinfo children|Henry I, King of England (1068-1135)|family=2|width=600px}}
If you want changes or some additional flags, now is the time to voice them. After I forget how the code works, I am reluctant to fiddle with it, because it is somewhat opaque.
Lurking bugs: There are probably still some small assumptions that mean it is best to attach children to the Father's info page, but I have written it so that we can associate them with the mother's page as well (eg when father is not known). ~ Phlox 16:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Cosmetic changes to showinfo children described above are done. Relative width doesn't work for some reason, so we will have to manage with absolute (eg 800px) for widths until I or someone else figures out if CSS has anything to do with the relative problem with tables. ~ Phlox 17:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Looks better. -AMK152(TalkContributions 19:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Template:Showinfo person is now substantially optimized to avoid the pre-expansion limit described in the technical documentation of info pages. The extreme example is again Henry I, King of England (1068-1135). What can we say- the guy was frisky?
With rudimentary info pages templates now in place, we are in position with the minimal infrastructure necessary for Automated Gedcom imports. Yay! I think. ~ Phlox 07:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

OK- I put in my application for sysop.[]

Genealogy:Requests for adminship#User:Phlox. Thanks for considering this. I am asking for your vote. ~ Phlox 02:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


The parent links aren't showing up on the info pages. Are we just linking them with and or is this some error? -AMK152(Talk • Contributions 21:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Should work now. ~ Phlox 22:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I have to drive a friend to her physical therapy and likely will not get to the problem until this evening. ~ Phlox 21:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Okay. -AMK152(TalkContributions 21:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Answer on my talk page. Hope the fix is what you were after. If not, you know where to find me.~ Phlox 03:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
County navigation- just playing with it right now. Any input, let me know. ~ Phlox 22:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

all caps for pseudo surnames?[]

Maybe all caps to avoid the pollution? Comment? Forum:Royalty- Surname encoding ~ Phlox 17:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Template: people[]

Do you mind if I add a "children" category to each marriage? --Richard Arthur Norton I 02:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I added a section to list children. However, multiple spouses with multiple children will create organizational issues which I will soon resolve. -AMK152(TalkContributions 03:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

fixed info[]

you dropped your /noinclude. It's ok now. You may have fixed it, but not seen it because you have to save twice. I have an idea about how to fix that save twice nonsense- maybe in a while. ~ Phlox 00:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

....BTW, you may be interested in this: John Putnam (disambiguation). The code dynamically searches for all titles with John and Putnam in them, so at any time you can check for duplicates. I intend to make it work with Soundex as well so that it will pick up mispellings. I did ones for Barack Obama and George Bush since they had info pages.

  • If I can maintain my interest, I will build a dynamic query mechanism that will allow queries using this same underlying mechanism. It will only work with articles that have info pages, but I can autogenerate those by bot so no problem there. No one has to use the format of the main info page article we use- they may not even be aware the info page is there. ~ Phlox 01:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Cool, it's much better than manualing creating disambiguations. -AMK152(TalkContributions 03:14, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Yep, and unlike such static lists, these are always current. When I start dumping in 100s of thousands of individuals, these similar persons pages will have to be sliced up finer by location, but its a minor modification of the selection criteria. Just a sampling of greater things to come.... ~ Phlox 06:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


Hello. What is the purpose of Category:Surname? Seems to me like an unwanted addition. Robin Patterson 22:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

In the Category:Surnames category, there are surname related pages, but do not connect to individual people. I created Category:Surname to place pages in which are surname-related pages, but are not an actual last name of someone. Example: Family name is a surname-related place, but it's not liek Smith, Johnson, etc. This is so Category:Surnames is only listing the categories of the surname categories that categorize people. Also, if you look at Special:Most linked to categories, you'll see "Surnames ‎(1,791 members)" which means that there are 1,791 pages in that particular category. If we have only surname pages that categorize people, we can get an idea of how many surnames we have indexed so far and watch it grow. -AMK152(TalkContributions 23:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
OK, please add a version of that explanation to the talk page so that others don't get puzzled by it. Robin Patterson 01:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


I know you are mostly interested in adding content about your ancestors here, but you have shown some interest in UI stuff with the site. A lot of it can be controlled with access to the mediawiki namespace, but unfortunately only admins can edit these pages. I'd like to nominate you for sysop so you can, if that is alright with you. ~ Phlox 20:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

That's all right with me. -AMK152(TalkContributions 20:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Great. Just nominated you. ~ Phlox 23:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


I'm brand new to wiki, and have been floundering, trying to do this. Thanks for the help! -Strump(TalkContributions 07:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. -AMK152(TalkContributions 20:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Category links that you presume are unnecessary[]

Somebody deliberately created nearly every category linking we have. That person may want to find a page by going down a familiar path of the category tree. Please save yourself and other people time by not deleting category links unless quite certain nobody could find them useful, especially where a page is in only two or three categories. (The fact that a page is in a subcat of a higher cat is not always a good reason for cutting the link to the higher cat. Important pages deserve short category paths.) Robin Patterson 01:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Your tree thing has been optimized[]

response on my talk page ~ Phlox 20:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

"Welcome" templates[]

It's good to see you using one of them. But you have picked the difficult one and left it looking unfinished: see User_talk:Kevinpet.

The standard one (Template:welc) gives the new person more information with less typing and leaves space for a fancy signature such as yours, with or without a personal note in front of it. It is possibly due for updating, but I've not looked hard at it for some months. You're welcome to tinker with it. You could make a copy with a slightly different name for your own personalised use. (I use a variation of it, welcnz, which would not be appropriate coming from anyone not living in New Zealand.)

Keep up the great work! Robin Patterson 07:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

William Traske[]

Hi - Yes, I'm related to William Traske. I'm his great-great-great-great-great-great-great granddaughter. Are you related as well?

Cool. William Traske is my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather. That makes us 8 cousins four times removed, unless we are related via one of his children. I'm descended fro mhis son, William Jr. -AMK152(TalkContributions) 20:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Kind of back[]

I apologize for my extended absense. I have not done anything with genealogy recently, but this is a temporarry situation. I am donating a huge amount of time to another activity but I have not in any way lost interest in Genealogy. I remains a long term project.

There are some significant projects ahead for genealogy. The first was a rewrite of the data objects code. I believe I came up with a much more efficient mechanism in December.

After that is written, a bulk upload of Genealogy files would be in order.

Is there anything I may assist with?

~ Phlox 05:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

You just havn't been heard of in a few months and I was wondering if you were still out there. Thanks for the quick response. -AMK152(TalkContributions)

remove 2 letter search[]

Again, speaking a genealogist, about a genealogy site, no one would search for the first 2 letters of a surname. If you are trying to find information about your ancestors, you know the surname you are looking for.

The 2 letter search makes sense on a general website with general information. Familypedia is not a general site with general data. It has many catagories that simply do not apply to genealogy.

Vick jay 01:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

If you don't want to use it, don't use it. Some people may want to use it. -AMK152(TalkContributions) 19:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

search for marriage by decade or century[]

Again, speaking genalogically, I cannot imagine looking for a marriage by decade or century, without first finding the surname you want.

A genealogist first looks for the Surname of interest. When those results are obtained; The next search would be for the place you think they came from. If you know they came from Chicago, IL and were born about 1800 you MIGHT search for 1 marriages in Chicago, IL, between 1820-1840, with the surname of interest.

All of genealogy begins with a Surname, all other catagories are refinements to the original surname search. Vick jay 01:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

This is mostly to place people with uncertain years of marriage. and to place the years categories by decade. For surnames, we have the surname category and you can use the search function. -AMK152(TalkContributions) 19:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


Hello again, 29th-cousin-a-few-times-removed (or maybe closer than that - have you checked my WorldConnect file?).

In the last month you've passed Bill Willis, moving into second place among the human contributors to Familypedia articles. Good work.

I hope you are on the wiki's mailing list. If not, please have a look at Forum:Mailing list for this wiki and consider joining.

Kind regards

Robin Patterson 11:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! -AMK152(talkcontribs) 14:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Info pages[]

Please read my recent addition to Forum:Creation of /info pages for all person articles. Robin Patterson 14:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Yep. I read and replied. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 14:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Kings of Scotland[]

Great to see the house of Stewart being filled in.

We now have Category:Monarchs of Scotland (following Wikipedia) and Category:Rulers of Scotland, with King James II in neither.

Time for a rationalization? I vote for the "Monarchs" structure, which sits under Category:British monarchs (which should probably be Category:Monarchs of Britian, for consistancy).

Thurstan 23:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. I think we'd need a general term for leaders of any country. Monarchs sounds good, rulers sounds more general, but I think leaders sounds better. Perhaps there needs to be further discussion. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 23:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, but it becomes a bit more nuanced for the countries (like Australia) which are "constitutional monarchies". Who is the "leader of Australia"? The "head of state" (ie the monarch, or the presidant for a republic), or the Prime Minister (the leader of the government).

Of course, all the kings of Scotland (whose title was probably historically "king of Scots", as in "Mary, Queen of Scots") could be categorized under both Category:Monarchs of Scotland, to reflect their title, and Category:Rulers of Scotland, to reflect their role. Alternatively, Category:Monarchs of Scotland could be a sub-cat of Category:Rulers of Scotland (ignoring those kings who didn't really rule!).

Thurstan 00:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and of course we would have to make categories for counts and earls and such. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 14:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

(The above section has been copied to Forum:Categories, where you are earnestly requested to continue it. Robin Patterson 16:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC))

Cemeteries IN, please, unless consensus for change[]

Please see

Nobody (as far as I am aware) had proposed that we change them to "of". I had neglected to notice that we have lots of "in". I like it. So please leave them as "in" unless we get a consensus for change.

Robin Patterson 14:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 14:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured articles[]

Please see Genealogy talk:Featured articles. We don't need to start the classification system, let alone finish it, before starting an informal consensus-based selection and display of good articles. Robin Patterson 11:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

We just make a list of articles to feature for now. Once the wiki gets going, and we use up that list of featured articles we can look at the categories for GA and A articles and those articles will be next in line to be featured. As the wiki grows, we can get more into detail. I agree that we don't have to have the very detailed t Wikipedia has. We can simplify it, and as the wiki grows, we'll add on to it so that it fits. I'll even propose a grading system. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 14:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with nearly all of that. (What do you mean "gets going"? 21,000 articles...) So -

Robin Patterson 14:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Once we get going with this system, that is. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 19:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Resident bots[]

I've invited User:Manticore to look in and see whether User:MantiBot can do some of our routine stuff. It would include this sort of thing, I think:

An alternative may be for one of us to learn how to work bots. Probably won't function on my antiquated PC! Robin Patterson 14:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot jobs?[]

03:12:32 Category:Born in 184 (diff; hist) . . (+16) . . AMK152 (Talk | contribs | block) (

Born in the 180s: 180-181-182-183-184-185-186-187-188-189

This page categorizes people who were born in 184.
See also: Concept:Born in 184 and Category:Died in 184.


N 03:12:05 Category:Born in 191 (diff; hist) . . (+16) . . AMK152 (Talk | contribs | block) (

Born in the 190s: 190-191-192-193-194-195-196-197-198-199

This page categorizes people who were born in 191.
See also: Concept:Born in 191 and Category:Died in 191.


N 03:11:53 Category:Born in 197 (diff; hist) . . (+16) . . AMK152 (Talk | contribs | block)

and so on. Just a few hours ago I suggested to Thurstan that the "married in ...." equivalents would be a bot job.

Kind regards

Robin Patterson 15:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't figure out how to do that with the bot. But I did create the missing 188 categories for the years 1 to 2008. I am going to try and figure out how to program the bot to create it. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 15:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Only 188; OK. But there will be over a thousand "Married in", I expect, if we go back to year 1, so it might be well worth puzzling over the programming, because there are likely to be other jobs that use very similar programming. PhloxBot was doing that sort of thing; can you dig into its subpages to get some clues? Or maybe put out a call for help on the Central Wikia mailing list - some very helpful people contribute to that.
Then there are the 10,000(?) surname categories. Can't their conversion, or at least the insertion of the new template, be programmed easily rather than being done by hand, and include the creation of each matching article page with its basic template and category (with "|*") so that new users don't waste too much time reinventing wheels?
Good luck! I continue to admire your energy. Robin Patterson 15:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Remember Template:WelcIP[]

Best for "anonymous" contributors. Robin Patterson 02:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 03:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:SurnameArticle[]

Please see Template talk:SurnameArticle for its last two points. Robin Patterson 03:25, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


Noted and replied, thanks. Robin Patterson 04:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Please now see Robin Patterson 00:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

And today's response, please! Robin Patterson 02:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Revised step 3 is now 3A and I've added 3B and 3C and added a conclusion after step 4. See! Robin Patterson 00:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

People pages creation[]

I would like you to help update

I think one of its links has been changed, and I think we might offer people fewer options and encourage people to consider info pages. You know more about that than I do. Robin Patterson 07:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Progress with surnames[]

See Robin Patterson 03:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I have been expecting to see your bot copying about 2300 surname categories to the bracket form in one pass, but it seems to have been rather spasmodic. Is there a problem? Robin Patterson 02:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


We should not delete the DEFAULTSORT line from any person page until every possible person category has it built in. Most do not - look at Category:Living people, for example. Robin Patterson 04:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Help, I've broken it![]

Category:Steep Surname seems to have left the "Category:" out of the redirect address. What have I done wrong? Thurstan 04:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

It left it out because you did, I expect. A quirk of Template:category redirect is that you have to specify "Category:" if the target category does not yet exist. I've ignorantly or carelessly created several articles that should have been categories by omitting the "Category:". So don't say you've broken it: say it's broke and you've cracked its secret! But now you have the article page, which is wide open for Template:SurnameArticle in the usual way and will lead to the category (to which the old category will lead as soon as you give it life with Template:SCat). "Steep" learning curve! Robin Patterson 08:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, now I'll know for next time! Thurstan 09:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Feedback on the Welcome note[]

Howdy! I appreciate the welcome note on my Talk page; it's got good info on how to get started. Some feedback:

  1. the adding a "Babel" template goes to a broken redirect page.
  2. It would help some of us to know how you discovered this site. doesn't say how to tell whom how we discovered the site. (I discovered it via wikia spotlight banner image at the bottom)

Thunderrabbit 01:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

New Perry pages[]

Please leave them alone for today. Robin Patterson 02:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Born etc[]

See Category:Died in 1914 at the end. Your recent Mr Hodge and others are not ordered by surname. I feel like looking into it, subject to any comments you might offer.

For the future, I think we can prepare an overall template that deals with those that want DEFAULTSORT while excluding (by putting it first) Template:Surname. Probably the sort of thing I could manage. I'd like to include "Married in" and add place categories to all of them. Robin Patterson 04:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


New pages 8 seconds apart - what's the secret?

N    08:28:16 Geertruijd Nijenhuijs (1705-?)/info (diff; hist) . .  (+1,546) . . AMK152...
N    08:24:25 Tijs Matthias Slotboom (1707-1769) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152... 
N    08:24:15 Category:Heijink (surname) (diff; hist) . .  (+8) . . AMK152... 
N    08:24:12 Joost Slotboom (1672-1743) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152...
N    08:23:38 Enneken Heijink (1656-?) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152...
N    08:23:19 Jenneken Heijinck (c1634-?) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152...
N    08:22:59 Jan Heijinck (c1624-1691) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152...
N    08:22:51 Category:Heijinck (surname) (diff; hist) . .  (+8) . . AMK152...
N    08:22:22 Unknown Heijinck (c1589-?) (diff; hist) . .  (+104) . . AMK152...

Robin Patterson 04:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

GEDCOM? I wish! I copy and paste the info page template to a non existant info page, fill in the info, save, edit page, drag parent or spouse's name from the info page to the search box and type "/info" after it and click search. This way, I can go from info page to info page and create them without creating the article page after each info page creating. Then I go to the non-existant article, copy the article template, and click on red links to make the info page info be displayed on the article. I also open up other tabs to create the surname articles. After doing this a while, I get faster at it. -AMK152(talkcontribs) 22:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmmmm. I can follow most of that and even picture myself doing it. It would be good if you could copy the procedure to one of the help pages so that other contributors can speed up similarly if they want to. Robin Patterson 23:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Please see the second half of User talk:Christin and help improve whatever it is that Christin is working from. That could save you and your bot a bit of later work. I can't even unzip it. Could you paste it into a page here so that others can look at it? Robin Patterson 02:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC)