Sasha Kopf's Celtic knot ring

Haeremai, welcome, talofa, Willkommen, bienvenue, welkom[]

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I'm puzzled at how you managed to create a page with the same name as the one I told you I had created (which still exists). I'll have to check to find a subtle difference.

Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Onwards and upwards[]

You inserted a space before the hyphen. All OK now except that some of the automatically-generated categories are wrong - they should not end in commas. Not your fault! I've approached one of the more knowledgeable contributors and expect that to be fixed within 24 hours. Now past my proper bedtime. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

You are editing now. Unless you are a very early riser you're not in the United Kingdom as I thought! You may have noticed Thurstan fixed the display of second family with {{Showinfo children|family=2}}. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Placenames and old photos[]

Placenames are best linked internally to existing or proposed pages on this site, and easiest to handle if we use the Wikipedia name exactly, allowing {{alsoWP}} to be added at the top for a direct link or {{usedwp}} if we want to copy stuff.

Old photos are probably public domain in every country that cares if the photographer died over 70 years ago. I'm not sure where to look that up, but I'll try. Can be changed later with no trouble.

Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Images from newspapers over 50 years old may be OK; I've really no idea. Check Help:Image copyright tags. At a guess, I'd say "fair use" might apply if you gave the newspaper full credit. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 22:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Another space problem creating a near-duplicate[]

This time it's because of omitting a space. Definitely excusable here; a couple of websites I know don't have a space between the name and the opening bracket.

I might turn your second fellow into a disambiguation page. Or maybe you could move him to become an as-yet-uncreated sibling page if that might save you time?

Only admins can delete pages. At the rate you are going, you might be considered worthy quite soon, but not today. I'm delighted at how well you have taken to this site. You could give the folks back at the Multiply site an unbiased review of it!.

Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Your longer missive[]

I'll intersperse replies between its paragraphs. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


See User:Nathanville/Baglin disambiguation. You may not find it useful immediately: I covered all the obvious duplicates. But there are another 600 Baglins on your site, so I expect more duplicate to appear. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:03, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Now see User:Nathanville/Stickler disambiguation and James Stickler, which also contains a link to the page that has full instructions. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page and can be used just by changing the first name in four places. Check the original hndis page occasionally to see if the model has been improved. Individuals who do not yet have their own info pages should be listed at the top. Nathanville 11:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


I reported briefly on your progress and invited people to look at a page that I'm awarding five stars to. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:03, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Fixed Ernest's redundancy[]

Now MY info page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Geni has only one BAGLIN[] - One of yours? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

He's not on my Tree, but then again unless I get permission from the family I don't add anyone born after 1900+ just in case they are still alive. Nathanville 03:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Fiddling with a Nathanville masterwork[]

Please see Talk:William Edward Baglin (1839-1908). — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


Pretty easy. Similar structure to html but about a quarter as many characters. Basic structure:


See Help:Table. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, very easy. Thanks. Nathanville 04:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Surname categories and articles[]

Arthur, you can create any surname category you like. We have about 3,000. Rootsweb Surname List has a million surnames. So please help! It's easy.

At the bottom of your Pegler or Peglar page I presume you now see a link to its category. Probably in red unless some keen helper has already done it for you. Whatever colour it is, click it.

  1. If the category has been created, it should have a link to the matching article and a brief explanation; read the explanation then follow the link.
  2. If it has not been created, please read the "sitenotice" near the top of the screen, starting with "Please note that SURNAME CATEGORIES ...".

Once you reach the article page, you should see or can produce quite a lot of material, nearly all made from pasting in a template found at Template:SurnameArticle/doc. If you're creating the page, the only essential is to drag the surname down to follow "Surname =".

If nobody has beaten you to it, you can add the ar/er variant spelling after "Variant1 =".

Save and admire. Then click on the variant spelling and repeat the whole process for that surname. Did I say it was easy?

Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, you got Willis (surname) almost right. Just that you copied too much. And having seen what you copied I've removed the surplus from Willis and the original. Good work. But for Peglar I think you must have spent insufficient time reading the "sitenotice" at the top of the screen, particularly the bold type: nothing typed in them except {{SCat}}. I've fixed the category (which was functioning perfectly well as a category despite the extra text) and moved your material to the article, where I added "Pegler" as a variant. See if you can create its category and article, in that order. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Another dynasty after the Baglins: Oaten (surname)[]

"Ralph (WOOTTON) OATEN was born about 1606 in Otterford. He died on 22 Feb 1689/90 in Otterford." - observed while browsing your website. No rush. Now I must get onto sorting out year pages and the two-name years. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Noted your response on my talk page. Gordon Oaten could start now. By the time he gets all his Oatens on site, you and he will both be highly proficient and able to work out which of you should cover each of the common relatives who have other surnames. Drop him a one-liner pointing him to Grace Enid Baglin (1933-2006)! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I intend to contact him soon. Gordon Oaten usually sends me updates every few weeks, and when I get any new Oaten information from fellow researchers I pass them straight to Gordon. Nathanville 06:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


Early riser again, I see! (Do you really have a day job?!) And still tinkering with that five-star article.

I've created a Squidoo page. Any expert user is welcome to improve it. Check out the rankings of that FamilyPedia lens!

Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Contents boxes at various browser window widths[]

You report fiddling with Grace Enid Baglin (1933-2006) to try to allow good display in narrower windows where the infobox might threaten layout.

If it is possible, some clever Wikian has probably already solved the problem and reported on it . You may be a brilliant wheel-inventor but you may be relieved not to have to do too many. I'll kick the subject off on the help desk here and maybe on the Central Wikia mailing list. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Nathanville 06:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Strike some of that. You didn't say "infobox". You said "contents box". That is more likely to mean what some of us call the table of contents. Tried forcing it to sit at a particular place by using {{tocright}}? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

If you can get the Table of Contents not to sit well and not overlap text and pictures when viewed at sized or full screen resolution in IE7 (and have the text/pictures at the top of the page, on one the pages where I've used them I'd be interested; and if it's not too difficult for me I should then be able to replicate the process on all the other pages where I've used it!

If not then don't worry.

Nathanville 15:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The editing bar[]

I hope you can see a row of little blue buttons above each editing box. They make some edit jobs exceptionally easy. "B" and "I" replace two html tags each; "Ab" creates the brackets for an internal link, the globe does for an external. Those and some others work either before you start typing or - with highlighting - after. It will be really good when you have got into the way of creating links when you are talking to someone about a page, because he or she can go straight to it (as can you when next you read what you wrote).

Your row of buttons may be only a dozen strong. It is not very hard to add more, some of which are not available in the edittools below the edit box. I have 28. Ask me if you are interested.

Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I have 28 too; I'm so used to writing in html I keep forgetting to use them, except for inserting images. I note there's one for inserting video but not for audio e.g. I have a couple of recordings of Florence Eveline Jenner (1901-1994) speaking a little welsh and playing the concertina.
I think audio is lumped in with images as "files". Have a(nother) look at Special:Upload and the trumpet button. By the way, a few of those buttons don't work properly; I had to copy some from a French version and seem to have messed up, unless the author did. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Your latest masterpieces and a possible Jenner linkup[]

When I struggle out of bed in the late morning (possibly because of too much time spent promoting this site on Squidoo), one of the first emails I open is usually something from my friend Arthur. This morning's one earned an article five stars and a brief comment. Must go for a shower and hairwash, but I expect to look at that article again, not only for the beautiful face near the bottom. (ToC being small might be nice at top left?) — Robin Patterson (Talk) 22:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I might try toc again on the left, last time the pictures were pushed down and the text was all out of line with them; but I've done more editing since then so it might look different next time!
One persons article that did go smoothly was that of my Great-great-grandfather George Burgess (1829-1905); lot of contents and history, and not too much pictures.
I wonder if you link with my Burgess relatives; but having looked at your website I think not. Patterson (Talk) 03:36, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Nathanville 23:02, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Now (well - after the morning coffee/breakfast/whatever) please see a talk page I have just created: Talk:Sarah Nelmes (c1798-1864). Ring any bells? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:36, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

"Moving" to change a "date" or anything else[]

To change any part of a page name, "Move". And check the appropriate boxes below the main dialogue box. Then it's advisable to edit all the pages that linked to the old name: see "What links here" and Help:Moving pages.

I don't remember you mucking up a page move but you wouldn't be the first.

Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Two caveats for pages with "/info" pages: don't forget to tick the "move subpages" box. Afterwards, for proper display, you should update two fields in the /info page:

  • |Short name = {{subst:BASEPAGENAME}}
  • |Article = {{subst:BASEPAGENAME}}

to reflect the new name.

Thurstan 03:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Latest info page problems[]

I'm back from dinner. I note you tried something but it didn't work. Which article is still a problem? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 08:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

All of them that I've tried, so I guess it's a general problem e.g. I tried to change the /info pages for the following two people. Only minor changes, but even if I go into edit and then save the page without changing anything all the links to parents, children and spouse cease to exist.

Nehemiah Baglin (1730-1801)

OK I forget which other page it was, but I tried a second Baglin person at random just to check that it was general problem and not specific to the one aricle.

Yes I remember now who the second person was; I spelt a name wrong so I need to change Llewellen Baglin (1824-1885) to Llewellyn Baglin (1824-1885) e.g. name should end yn not en. Nathanville 09:28, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Nathanville 09:28, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

People you may be interested in[]

Thurstan 07:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Spouse2, spouse3[]

Arthur, there have been some problems with non-first spouses. If problem is on article page, check latest version of info page guidelines to see if you've activated the thing for second family. Spouse3 can probably be added to /info page with no problems, just like adding Child7 etc. Thurstan is one of the current experts on info pages; I mostly just follow along and tell him and AMK what doesn't work or hasn't been well enough explained! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

However, there is an annoying "feature" in the way the info box loops through the spouses: it stop when it finds a blank spouse. Since you left "Spouse" blank for Bridgitt Baglin (1761-?), the later spouses won't show. I usually code "Spouse = (unknown)" for this case. I don't think this will be fixed soon, because it will require some design changes.
My test case for multiple marriages is the page for great great grandaunt, Ellen Levingston (1833-1911).
Thurstan 06:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks THurstan, that did the trick. She was unmarried rather than spouse unknown but your tips did the trick. Nathanville 07:06, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Delays in appearances in categories[]

Your Clerke will probably appear in a day or two. This is something to do with "cache" and may be related to having a page categorised by a template. I don't know how it works. I've suffered a lot of these. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:58, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Links to categories and images: prefix a colon[]

Stops them doing their specialised display things. Example: Category:Clerke (surname). — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Photo updates[]

Sorry, pal, that aspect of images is a complete mystery to me. If you've tried "Help:Images" with no luck, come back and I'll have a think. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

What you get from Familypedia[]

Good to see 100 of your relatives on-site. More than mine. I'm still delighted that someone who has a pretty good site already should see advantages here. And slightly puzzled - though I've not studied your site enough to see what limitations it might have. Maybe it's time for you to create a lens explaining!! (Several of mine suitable for reciprocal lensroll.) — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I could replicate what I do here on my website, although all links between family members would all be done manually and would require a lot of labour (time resource), which I don't have, to maintain links as pages change.

Also the other advantage of FamilyPedia for me is that I have a lot of fellow genealogy researchers who visit my website and contribute to it when we exchange information and photos etc., and any changes outside the parts of my website which are automated, that is information in addition to the family tree database and photo albums have to be manually added by me.

Therefore, using FamilyPedia as an extension to my website does give others, where our records cross, the option of making changes to some of the individuals on my family tree, and gives them an option to add further members to the family group that I don't currently have covered in my family tree.

Yes I'd like to do more on Squidoo to promote my website and FamilyPedia, and no doubt when I eventually retire I'll have the time to do so.

Nathanville 12:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Arthur, after replying below to your latest query, I reread your piece above. Not wanting to wait till you retire, I'd like your approval for me to quote your first three paragraphs in a Squidoo lens or another wiki some time. (I don't need your "permission"; site licensing is probably enough for that.) — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yes of course you are welcome to quote as you wish.

Nathanville January 31, 2010 (UTC)

API key[]

Thank you for your hopeful opinion of me, Arthur, but you picked another thing I know nothing about, so I've copied it to the Help desk. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:39, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Senator John Kerry has a Uley ancestor[]

7212 William Basset, of Uley, co. Gloucester, b. ... , d. ...


7213 Jane Ashe, b. ... , d. ...

See Not on Familypedia, as far as I can tell from "What links here". — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:11, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting; I only have one Basset on my tree, a Minnie Elizabeth Basset (1871-1947) who married a William Charles Baglin from Horsley just five miles from Uley. They settled in Stroud, just six miles from Uley where they had their children. As you know my direct maternal ancestors are a long line of Baglin's from the Uley area.

Nathanville 15:54, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome back![]

It's good to see some more facts and opinions being added.

I wonder whether you realise how much better the site is than when you did most of your work here. For example, the automatically updated "bdm" subpages of localities.

-- Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:42, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I don't get much time these days for genealogy, but I do what I can when I can. No doubt in time I'll get more time.

--Nathanville (talk) 10:47, August 12, 2014 (UTC)